Jacinta Parsons - Off Air Perspective and Chronic Endurance

Jacinta Parsons, has a lot to say, and we wanted her perspective!
She's an ABC Melbourne Radio host, Author, and Public Speaker, as well as a huge lover of people, and their stories.

If you only know her from her "Afternoons" show on ABC Melbourne Radio, you may be led to believe that this charismatic, fun and friendly, ball of energy is JP's only side.

But Jacinta's real story is one of perseverance, and endurance.
It's a test of emotional and physical will power to keep getting up, and take control of life, no matter what it throws at you.

After hundreds of trips to hospital, and finally getting her diagnose of Crohn's disease, Jacinta Parsons made a decision.
She decided to live her life, and not waste any more time. The very real and personal knowledge that life is precious, and can change at a moment's notice, drives her to live every day to its fullest.

She is a true inspiration to anyone with chronic illness, and her outlook on life contagious.

This will be an episode for the ages.



You can read more about Jacinta Parson here:
https://www.jacintaparsons.com/

You can get a copy of her books here:

A Question of Age
Unseen

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Andy: Welcome to another episode of the Good People Podcast brought to you by In Other Good News. My name is Andy. And on this show, I get to talk to some fantastic humans. They're good humans. Today's no exception. She is an author. She is a public speaker. She is a part time endurance athlete, full time endurance radio host.

[00:00:27] Andy: Welcome to The podcast Jacinta Parsons. 

[00:00:30] Jacinta: I've never, ever been described as a part time endurance athlete and I'm so proud to be in even vaguely relevant to those words. 

[00:00:39] Andy: Well you did. You, you ran your half marathon. Yeah. Which is an achievement. I've never done that. 

[00:00:45] Jacinta: It's huge. It was outrageously ridiculous.

[00:00:48] Jacinta: I'm training now for my next one. What's the next one? Wow. Later this year, but I've gone from zero K's again Oh, I just made it to [00:01:00] I'm up to ten. So yeah, we're getting there 

[00:01:03] Andy: Is it to do the half marathon? Yeah. Okay 

[00:01:05] Jacinta: in October. 

[00:01:07] Andy: Well, good luck. Thanks 

[00:01:08] Jacinta: You know, I'm an athlete. 

[00:01:10] Andy: Yeah. Well, I do know that's why I thought I should put it into the Into the top of the show 

[00:01:15] Jacinta: If you ever saw me run you might reflect on that word, but I'm gonna use it No, what you know that let's go there.

[00:01:21] Jacinta: Yeah, thank you 

[00:01:22] Andy: now this is a little bit special having you on the show because it's a little bit of a moment. Like if I close my eyes, I [00:01:30] can hear the voice that I know. But when I open them, you're here in the same room, which is weird because in the couple of years that we've had a pseudo professional relationship I've only been with you in the same room for about 30 seconds.

[00:01:45] Jacinta: Yeah. I know. I was wondering about that. It's a weird thing because when you do radio, often, you know, the people that are calling in or part of the program, you never see, but I have a very rich imagination and [00:02:00] sometimes I feel like I have been very much with people, you know, it feels, it feels really intimate and it feels like, and I was reflecting, how many times have I hung out with these guys?

[00:02:11] Jacinta: And it's like, well, actually. 30 seconds or whatever it was on the ABC. Yeah, 

[00:02:15] Andy: and we didn't and we got to come visit but we sat out in the foyer and That's right. We sat out in the foyer and then you come out in a quick ad break We did a quick photo and then we 

[00:02:24] Andy: left. 

[00:02:25] Jacinta: Oh my goodness But in the time when we couldn't actually have people in the studio Yeah.

[00:02:29] Jacinta: See, that's not [00:02:30] even what happened in my, in my memory of it. Yeah. 

[00:02:32] Jacinta: It's weird. 

[00:02:33] Andy: Well, it was a big day for us because and probably rewinding a little bit there. It's kind of a funny thing how we met. So during COVID one day you were asking for kids to call up radio and tell us what their favorite, tell you, tell you what their favorite vegetables were.

[00:02:49] Jacinta: That's right. 

[00:02:49] Andy: And so my son Ruben co host of In Other Good News. He rang up and told you absolute lies but he wanted to call in and he said [00:03:00] you said, what are your favorite vegetables? And he said something that he would never choose to eat. I don't know. And then at the end of it someone who recognized him said, Hey, that was Reuben from another good news.

[00:03:12] Andy: Yeah. And then I went, Oh, maybe we should connect. So then we got in touch and then this was when we were just hitting a five day lockdown You said, would Reuben like to come on and be a Good News [00:03:30] Correspondent for five episodes? And we said, yeah, of course, we'd love that. No worries. And then somewhere towards the third episode,

[00:03:38] Andy: I 

[00:03:38] Jacinta: probably signed him on live, did I, on the radio.

[00:03:40] Jacinta: More. Yeah. All the time. 

[00:03:41] Andy: Well, that was the point where we heard the lockdown was extending. 

[00:03:44] Jacinta: Oh my gosh. 

[00:03:45] Andy: And. Not only was the lockdown extending, but like Reuben found out live on air that he's, that everything was, his world was crashing down around him, his birthday, his camp and everything was just going to not be on.

[00:03:59] Andy: So [00:04:00] that was a really thing. But what it meant was we spent five odd weeks every day, almost every four days a week calling in as a good news correspondent to the ABC. And I have to say for me, that was a new experience because it was the, I got to be a comedy writer for children. 

[00:04:19] Jacinta: That's right.

[00:04:20] Jacinta: It's pretty incredible. I have to say and I mentioned it to Ruben just before that I still have people talking about his impact [00:04:30] because he was so good at not just the good news, but just being himself and the real reflection on what it was to be a little person. Going through the experience, birthdays, camps being cancelled, like his devastation that was real when he was having that, people really almost needed, like, to have a real connection and to be really talking about it.

[00:04:56] Jacinta: He was really, both, the whole team, obviously, you [00:05:00] and. Sunny as well were really important to our experience during 

[00:05:06] Jacinta: that time. 

[00:05:07] Andy: Yeah, it did feel like that. And so, yeah, we heard some of the responses that we're getting from people. Because again, that's the biggest thing for us is you never quite know how it's going to land and who's going to pick it up.

[00:05:17] Andy: But when you do get that positive feedback, it's quite nice. And it keeps you going, I guess. So that was, I mean, that was good. And that was our. And then we come in into the studio, even though we [00:05:30] were not quite in there, we almost got in, which was still a lot of fun. And so that's, I guess that's how we we got to know you, but you know, you are coming out of our radio all the time.

[00:05:41] Andy: Our household pretty much has ABC on all the time. It just gets turned on and, and it moves through the shows throughout the day. So I'm always hearing you. I love your Brian Nankervis jacinta duo banter on Fridays. We always enjoy a bit of that. I need to find a Brian Nankervis myself, I [00:06:00] think. 

[00:06:00] Jacinta: Oh, everyone needs a Brian Nankervis in the reals.

[00:06:04] Jacinta: He, yeah, he's just an extraordinary human. I think he's just. Absolutely wonderful. So yeah, everyone needs a Brian Nankervis, regardless of whether you need them for radio or not. You need one in your back pocket just to pull out. Endlessly ridiculous 

[00:06:20] Jacinta: human. 

[00:06:21] Andy: Yeah, that's great. So why I wanted to get you in to talk to us, because firstly, you are a good person, so you qualify.

[00:06:29] Andy: But [00:06:30] secondly, I feel like, and I've, I've got a couple of things on the desk. So for those who have you, of you who are listening and not watching on the desk here, I've got your two books that you've written, which I've read. And both of which for different reasons moved me personally. So I wanted to talk about this because when I read these books, I thought to myself, The Jacinta Parsons that I hear on the radio every day, the friendly, light, fluffy, keep the show rolling sort of person, [00:07:00] there's another side.

[00:07:02] Andy: There's a really different side and that's what I got out of these. So I wanted to get you on and talk, because that's what we do here on the Good People Podcast. We actually talk about real, real things. And so firstly, this book here, so the first one here, which I'll hold up here. So that's Unseen.

[00:07:19] Andy: That was, you wrote that, and you were finishing that just 

[00:07:21] Andy: before COVID. 

[00:07:22] Jacinta: Yeah, just before, and had that same experience of realizing that a book's getting released in a time when no one [00:07:30] is around, no one's doing book launches, no one, you know. So it was a really, for the first book to come out during that time, it was a strange experience.

[00:07:39] Jacinta: Did it make it hard? Actually, it was lovely, I have to say. There was something the conversation wasn't that dissimilar to what we were probably having around. The pandemic and the, the things that it was doing to us as a community is very much aligned with, in a lot of ways, the experience of having a chronic illness.

[00:07:59] Jacinta: [00:08:00] All the, all the stages that we went through, not being able to leave your home and you know, all those things is what actually happened. So it was actually a really interesting comparison at the time. And it was also, in some ways, you know, I think I was quite tired. So it was not so bad to be doing things remotely and to be talking about the book in that way as well.

[00:08:20] Andy: Yeah, okay, 

[00:08:20] Andy: and maybe people had more time to read it. 

[00:08:22] Jacinta: Yeah, perhaps. 

[00:08:23] Andy: Which is fantastic. So the book, the basic premise of the book The Secret World of Chronic Illness. [00:08:30] I mean, this is, this stems from your own personal experience with chronic illness. So do you want to maybe just as a high level, your experience with chronic illness?

[00:08:39] Andy: Yeah. And then we can talk about sort of what, what you've covered. 

[00:08:43] Jacinta: At a very top level you know, then this is part of it actually, when you describe a diagnosis that you have, it's always lacking the, the real. You know, need to explain what it is because everyone has a different experience of chronic illness or even within [00:09:00] disease I've got Crohn's disease and I've had it for now.

[00:09:03] Jacinta: I don't even know what 

[00:09:04] Andy: 30 years. 

[00:09:04] Jacinta: Yeah, is that right? 

[00:09:06] Andy: early 90s Yeah. 

[00:09:08] Jacinta: Yeah. Well mid nineties. Mid nineties. Yeah. So it must be, yeah. Is that right? 20s? 30s? 

[00:09:15] Andy: 2023, we must be. 

[00:09:16] Jacinta: Wow. That's really hard to even imagine that. But yes. So Crohn's disease, it's a, it's a bowel disease. It's an autoimmune disease. It can affect, in fact, your whole digestive system and it has [00:09:30] various outcomes in terms of the experience of it.

[00:09:33] Jacinta: So it's quite diverse, but I had a very sort of significant. And, and serious disease state with it for about 10 years. Yeah. 

[00:09:44] Andy: How long did it take to diagnose? 

[00:09:47] Jacinta: It was years. And it's a mixture of diagnosis for so many people is a mixture of coming to terms with the fact that you're not well and something's really going on and facing that [00:10:00] and then seeking help.

[00:10:01] Jacinta: So that can sometimes take time. And then actually getting a diagnosis and going through the system is also variously complex depending on what the disease is. 

[00:10:12] Jacinta: Now 

[00:10:12] Andy: you talk about in the book, your many, many trips to hospital. Like how many, would you know ballpark how many trips to hospital 

[00:10:18] Andy: you would have?

[00:10:19] Jacinta: I don't know, but I have, I'm really proud of my When you go into hospital and you've got your folders, I've got multiple and they're really thick and I feel so good about [00:10:30] it. Yeah, it is. It's like, I want you to know this need, half of me needs to be archived. We don't even, you know, like. It's a, it feels like that is, I saw it recently again, like the second or third volume of it and it's really thick and it's like that is my visual representation of the experience in some ways.

[00:10:48] Jacinta: All the notes, all the history is somewhere and it's, you know, it's been archived. It's, it exists, this experience on some paper.

[00:10:58] Andy: God, did you need to employ a [00:11:00] librarian to help 

[00:11:00] Andy: you? 

[00:11:01] Jacinta: There are archivists obviously in the hospital. So it just, it's there. Yeah. It's a strange thing. I feel like I'm check it out.

[00:11:08] Jacinta: Everyone. There's, there's a big story here. Yeah. But lots and lots and lots of hospital time that morphs in lots of ways in your memory as well. Yeah. But it's it's stays in you in a really interesting way. My brother recently went in for something very. Minor and was just talking about the experience of what it's like during the night in hospital and [00:11:30] you know it's those times where you get to reflect and really talk to someone about how How that really is can be really frightening.

[00:11:38] Jacinta: It's really hard to sleep just all the things that happen in hospital It is such a, it's almost a very, very particular life, you know, in there. 

[00:11:48] Andy: Yeah. 

[00:11:49] Andy: And you've become, you've become not yours. Yeah. As well, don't you? Like. Very much. Because you've got all these people trying to work out what's going on, but then they order tests and they order, they tell you what [00:12:00] you need 

[00:12:01] Jacinta: \and your body becomes a separate aspect of your personhood in a way it's being, it's sick, you know, and having an understanding about how the body and the person are distinct from each other, but also obviously impacted, you know, like your body feels like it's somewhere else sometimes being looked at and scrutinized and assessed and made well or, or, or whatever 

[00:12:26] Andy: prodded and probed

[00:12:27] Andy: yeah. Yeah. We'll run this test today and see what [00:12:30] happens, but hang about, and then we'll run this other test tomorrow if that didn't work. Yeah, I know someone else who spent end on end years in hospital as well, similar, different diagnosis. Actually, I'm not sure if she even got a diagnosis in the end.

[00:12:44] Andy: She was just there for years, which is like, I can't even fathom that, like living in 

[00:12:48] Andy: hospital. 

[00:12:49] Jacinta: Becomes quite a strange, you know, institutionalized is too strong a concept for me, but you can really understand how the [00:13:00] world and how it works inside there. You have to, you have to become a native to almost, you have to understand it.

[00:13:08] Jacinta: And so you, you, you kind of change to participate in that. environment. It's very different to the way we live outside of that space. Yeah. Sounds wild, but it really is. The time, the clock, how it, you know, what you are doing while you're there, how you eat, everything. It's very, it's [00:13:30] really 

[00:13:30] Jacinta: interesting. 

[00:13:30] Andy: Yeah, I know.

[00:13:31] Andy: And even in short bursts, like where we've had either a run in and you've got to spend a bit of time in the ER. Yeah. Basic procedures or stuff and you hang around and there's a lot of sitting there staring at the same wall Yeah, and you don't know this there's like stuff goes on outside and you can hear it But you're like is any of that me coming back like come back and yeah, can I can I be the next I want to go?

[00:13:53] Andy: Home all that sort of stuff all of that. Yeah, that's So then that took I mean that took years to get [00:14:00] that Diagnosis when you got it. Did you feel better or worse? 

[00:14:04] Andy: I 

[00:14:04] Jacinta: felt fantastic when I got it because it's always I think Well for me, anyway, the experience of having something I could describe to somebody else in a word Yeah, what's wrong with you rather than having so well, I've just been all these things I've got Crohn's disease and when you have a name for something you also depending on what that name is.

[00:14:24] Jacinta: It's validated by the world. Okay. Well, that's what you are. All [00:14:30] right. I can understand you. Yep. And it's a shortcut sometimes. But then the flip of that is the shortcut can sometimes, like I said to you when I said, I've got Crohn's. That's, you know, very difficult sometimes because the way you have an experience with disease is missing in that.

[00:14:47] Jacinta: So often people will put their own interpretation of what, when you say, I have this. Oh, well, I know someone who does too. Or, you know, and people give you their very, it's all very well meaning. But [00:15:00] when you're in a lot of grief and you're going through a lot of experience with, with chronic illness, it can be hard to have that taken away from you and have it not really understood.

[00:15:10] Jacinta: Outside of your experience. 

[00:15:11] Jacinta: Yeah, 

[00:15:12] Andy: a hundred percent. And so it becomes because people, well meaning individuals will give you advice and whatnot. And, and because the. Everything is a spectrum as we know these days there's a, you could be not affected too badly. Does anyone ever get away with it lightly?

[00:15:29] Jacinta: [00:15:30] Yes. 

[00:15:30] Andy: Okay. So some people just have a bit of it. 

[00:15:31] Jacinta: Yeah. Some people just have it. A bit of inflammation. It's mild. So there's absolutely a, a sliding scale of severity. Yeah. Yeah, with with my illness. Yeah. 

[00:15:41] Andy: Yeah. And so you copped it though. You like, yeah, you were at one stage and I, today I kind of want to fashion this around perspective.

[00:15:49] Andy: So at one point in your book, you say, I wonder if I was going to die. Like it got that serious that you thought at that point there, did you know what 

[00:15:59] Andy: it was? [00:16:00] 

[00:16:00] Jacinta: Yes, I knew what it was and it was just there's a few times where I think illness regardless of whether it's a terminal diagnosis or not, you are, you are dealing with mortality because it's about.

[00:16:16] Jacinta: It's about physical fragility. It's about the body not doing what it should do the right way. And it really, I mean, I did have scary moments in hospital where I really did think something terrible might [00:16:30] happen and it felt like it almost did a few times. But also at another level, you are looking at the human body.

[00:16:38] Jacinta: In what it really is, which is a forever kind of in the process of death, but you're having to deal with it at a very young age and understand that it's the truth. It's how it is. But illness really speeds up requirement to accept the body as something [00:17:00] that will one day will die. 

[00:17:02] Jacinta: Yeah. What a fun topic.

[00:17:04] Jacinta: But I know, I know it's what it's about. 

[00:17:07] Andy: And do you think that that. Those thoughts of, I may die from this, how did that change your perspective on? 

[00:17:16] Jacinta: Perfect. I love perspective. I think it is one of the deepest things I took from illness is how important perspective is. What illness [00:17:30] showed me was with that massive restriction to your experience of living.

[00:17:36] Jacinta: You know, you can't do the things, your body can't do things. It can't walk, it can't, it can't get out of bed. It's in a heap of pain. Initially that's very difficult. The perspective is quite painful. And you realise that you really have to shift the way you experience whatever you're going through. [00:18:00] Or, and that you have a power to do that.

[00:18:02] Jacinta: And that has stayed with me and changed me entirely forever. Is that you, we can choose the perspective with which we encounter the challenge or whatever happens in our life. And it's not to make it rosy and let's all have a joyful perspective. That's not it. It's more we have a chance to [00:18:30] really shift and really deeply have a sense of what we are.

[00:18:36] Jacinta: Yeah. 

[00:18:36] Andy: Yeah. It's just that it's a, I feel like for a lot of people it would be an instant. change in the way you see the world because you are onward and upward as a, in your youth generally, you're sort of, it's always, you'd never think about death in your youth you never think about what's going to take me down and then something surprising happens and then the next thing you know, you're, [00:19:00] you're facing something that you, you think to yourself, well this actually could be the end so I like the idea that you start to see the world a bit different, would that have been, I mean, what, what, what was the, for you, so on the book, what made you want to actually pen these? Because there's some really intimate details in, in here of what happened and how you, your journey, but what made you want to write this? 

[00:19:26] Jacinta: Well, I never ever thought I would write a book.

[00:19:29] Jacinta: I've always [00:19:30] written, I've always loved writing, but also I, this is something I think everyone It feels to an extent is I don't really have a story to tell, you know, like you feel like you didn't have a story. I didn't feel like I had a story because everyone's got a far more profound story or a far more serious story or, you know, what have I got to offer here?

[00:19:51] Jacinta: But I did feel like there was a really important story to share in terms of the complexity of illness. And so I thought I [00:20:00] would use my experience, but I would use a lot of. research. I'd go and research this, talking about shame, talking about the internalization of, you know, some of the really negative aspects that we experience when we have illness.

[00:20:14] Jacinta: And then what you realize is that the personal is universal and regardless of the extent of your experience or how different it might be on the surface, there is something that is fundamental potentially. And [00:20:30] so telling the truth. As best you can is a really helpful thing, I think, in having good conversations in the world.

[00:20:39] Jacinta: It's not there necessarily to help anyone, but telling the truth, I think, is an important thing to do when you have an opportunity like I had to write this book about me. But it really is just about illness. 

[00:20:54] Andy: Yeah, you do refer to a lot of other people's. There was a [00:21:00] surprise heart condition. There was a bunch of different ones that pop up, like people who were healthy that all of a sudden, yeah.

[00:21:08] Andy: It really is life changing to get. Some of these things and so like and I'm really glad you read it You know people close to me I've seen them with chronic illness and I guess that's the title of the book unseen Most chronic illness you can't see do you know any I mean you've been in it for a long time Do you know what what sort of percentage of people have chronic illness?

[00:21:28] Jacinta: Yeah. Well, we're looking at [00:21:30] half the population which is an enormous figure and that I think will only grow as we begin to understand the impacts of chronic illness and what they are as well. So you know, one in two, enormous. And so if you don't have a chronic illness, you are either caring for someone who does or they're in your family or we're all.

[00:21:55] Jacinta: Really impacted by illness in our community, but we have a [00:22:00] world that doesn't really account for it. We have a world that moves very quickly. And if you're sick, if you're not keeping up, we don't seem to have, we're changing, but for a long time, we didn't have a lot of capacity to find space for doing things differently, to ensure that there is an equity of access to a lot of things for us, you know, for chronic illness and disability.

[00:22:24] Andy: And chronic illness covers. Lots. Yeah. There's so many. Like we're talking Crohn's disease is often, [00:22:30] is obviously in there, but you've got everything from like long term cancers and, and mental health and like there's, there's so many. Yeah. So everyone, there's two things really here is which you touched on.

[00:22:42] Andy: One is everyone has a story, which is, I guess in the line of work that we're doing, having conversations, you come across this every single day. Like, there is not a day that goes by where I don't learn something new about someone's personal struggle. Yeah. And if you open yourself up to the conversation, then people [00:23:00] will tell, they'll tell you if they feel safe.

[00:23:02] Andy: Yeah. And I love it because it sort of normalizes all of that instead of having to hide it. Like instead of. Pretending like it's not there, because that would be half of the battle sometimes, I reckon, like pretending it's not there. 

[00:23:14] Jacinta: Yeah. And being required to pretend it's not there. I think we're very, we've been for a very long time when we didn't speak about this as much as we do now.

[00:23:23] Jacinta: The dialogue's really changed. A lot of people are now feeling much more comfortable to identify [00:23:30] with illness. But before that, you know, and, and still to this day, it comes at a cost, potentially, you know, your workplaces look at you sideways, you know, really, and depending on. the type of illness you have.

[00:23:45] Jacinta: There's lots of shame around not keeping up, needing help, not living up to the expectations that society has for us, which again are changing, but have been so deeply embedded into us. We're [00:24:00] Workers, we have, you know, we're required to produce, make money, do the things that you've got to do. And if you don't do that, then you are thought of as lesser.

[00:24:10] Jacinta: And so it's trying to come to terms with all of that when you are in a vulnerable 

[00:24:14] Jacinta: state. 

[00:24:15] Andy: Yeah. And do you know what? Like even right now in the current economic conditions, they're talking about reducing spending. They want people to have less jobs and they want people to be more efficient. And efficiency comes with...

[00:24:28] Andy: Scrutiny. Yeah. [00:24:30] You know, you're not performing enough. And so, and if you talk about, so here's something else I want to know. This is a question I really want to know. How do you now, given after reading this, you were talking about spending weeks in bed and only being able to pull yourself out of bed for your part time jobs on weekends. How do you find the energy now to do a three hour radio show with all the preparation that goes with that? Plus all the other stuff like what's changed for you that you're now able to do that. 

[00:24:58] Jacinta: It's interesting There's a couple [00:25:00] things to that. The best part of the good part of that story is that I found some medication That's working quite well and has done for the last couple of years.

[00:25:09] Jacinta: And so fingers crossed that that will maintain For some time it you know, it will go through its own stages But I think what's really interesting as well is that when you have been sick for a really long time, it takes a lot to for you not to do things. [00:25:30] So once I made a decision that I just had to get on, I had to, to make money, to live a life, then I think it's a really sad part of this, but you deny.

[00:25:43] Jacinta: And you don't allow for illness to dictate your life. And so in some ways you will push through when perhaps you shouldn't. And you go further than you probably should. Because I'd lost so much time to illness, I felt. [00:26:00] I have gone at 1, 100 miles an hour to try and catch up. Not because, but because of, there's a, there's a bit of a grief, you know, in, in so much potential and so much hope and, and want for the world in your own life.

[00:26:20] Jacinta: And having that taken away, even a small amount of energy to get you through, it's like, I'll just do this there, you know, so I'm very conflicted about [00:26:30] that because I think it's a really hard side of what illness is, but it's also part of the strength to, I think, you know, you, you see yourself in a way it's a bit different.

[00:26:43] Andy: Yeah. The attitude, I mean, Nike, just do it. Yeah. The, the fitness attitude is push. Yeah. You just got to do that one extra rep. You got to do that extra bit, whereas for illness, it's [00:27:00] take that one extra nap really, isn't it? Yeah. It's sort of the opposite. So it's hard to, yeah, I can see why it could be really difficult to, to choose cause you, we're programmed to say push through is better.

[00:27:11] Jacinta: That's right. And I don't think that's good, obviously. I think. But it's deep inside me to push through because I love so much the things that I have an opportunity to do I'm so scared of it going away, you know, we're not being able to do it anymore [00:27:30] And we you know, once you've seen how quickly your life can turn upside down Which was what was really helpful in some way around the conversation that we had during the pandemic was people really understanding We're pretty fragile, you know, we're very vulnerable and that's not something to be afraid of, but it is something that really shifts your perspective forever.

[00:27:51] Jacinta: Once you know that, it's difficult not to know that again. 

[00:27:56] Andy: Yeah, that's right. Once you realize you're mortal. Yeah, 

[00:27:59] Andy: yeah, [00:28:00] 

[00:28:00] Andy: really. Yeah, that's right. So I mean, you've written Unseen and it was a fantastic read. I think half our, half my family read it. Aww. But it was really good because like I say, I know people who have spent their lives who, and it's not one illness for a lot of people.

[00:28:18] Andy: It's like end on end. That's right. Different illnesses. Like this happens and then this happens, which is obviously a genetic, like, I don't know, it's immunity, immune systems and stuff like that that just [00:28:30] don't tackle. 

[00:28:31] Andy: That's right. 

[00:28:32] Jacinta: And, and once you have something, you're more likely to have something else, you know the co aspect of it all.

[00:28:39] Andy: Yeah, that's 

[00:28:40] Andy: right. So, so I guess, so firstly, thank you for writing this. So that impacted me that book and I wanted other people to read it too. So you should. So here it is. Here it is here. Unseen, Jacinta Parsons. 

[00:28:53] Jacinta: Just a light, gentle 

[00:28:55] Jacinta: read. 

[00:28:55] Andy: Yeah, yeah. Mm. Gentle. 

[00:28:59] Jacinta: Opposite. Not [00:29:00] really. Detailed? Yeah, detailed.

[00:29:02] Jacinta: Lots of information. 

[00:29:02] Andy: Horrific at times. Yeah. But some really lovely messages that come through it. Now, I mean, that's one. So when I read this, I felt like, okay, there's another side and this is you pushing, pushing through and getting you know, it sounded, it was almost like a victory because you went from bedridden, you know, diagnosis, you got a diagnosis, you sound like you're on the mend.

[00:29:25] Andy: You got radio jobs. Yeah. You know, then you started working for Triple [00:29:30] R. Yeah. Which is quite a while 

[00:29:31] Andy: ago now, isn't it? 

[00:29:32] Jacinta: Yeah, I know. It's so hard to be one of those people that's getting older. You know, I've got a, a long history now where something, you know, was it what? I don't even know. Yeah. 10 years ago that I was there, something like that.

[00:29:45] Jacinta: Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. We'll say 10, we'll say that. 

[00:29:47] Andy: So, and then you went to, because I think, what was it, 2017 ABC. Is that right? But you didn't 2015, right? But you didn't join as a you didn't come on board as a [00:30:00] broadcaster? No, music 

[00:30:01] Andy: director? 

[00:30:01] Jacinta: Yeah. Yeah. I was the music director having done, you know, music jobs for a long time, working, you know, inside the music industry, I suppose.

[00:30:11] Jacinta: Yeah, I was, it was a shock to get that job. It really was. And I've, you know, five years down the track, I did speak to the people who gave me the job and said, How did I get the job? You know, I was just so surprised because usually you have to know someone or, you know, there's lots of ways in, but beautiful [00:30:30] job programming music for the local radio network and kind of working with double J and triple J to do that sort of, you know, very delightful.

[00:30:39] Jacinta: But in that job, I started carving out spaces where I could go and speak about music. Create, you know, great national programs celebrating, you know, people like Archie Roach and doing live music shows. And slowly but surely. Finding my way into hosting and, and filling in 

[00:30:59] Andy: because [00:31:00] you'd already been hosting on RRR.

[00:31:01] Andy: Yes. Like you had a few different shows on RRR. Yeah. Yeah. And so then moving across different role, but then worming your way back in. Worm. 

[00:31:07] Jacinta: The worm wormed. Talking about that. And said yes and did everything and you know, all of that stuff. 

[00:31:12] Andy: You remind me of a funny time in my life when I got a job because The person on the phone that I spoke to thought I was my work colleague.

[00:31:24] Andy: So they said, come and interview. And I said, cool, and I went and interviewed for [00:31:30] this job and I got it. But my work colleague from the job I was in currently, they thought it was them. So I, yeah. 

[00:31:37] Jacinta: Wow. 

[00:31:38] Andy: So I got the job. Just, yeah. 

[00:31:40] Jacinta: Did they ever work it out? 

[00:31:41] Andy: Yeah, in the end. Okay. They told me later. So I thought you were the other guy.

[00:31:46] Jacinta: Great. I can be the other guy. Sure, what do you want me to be? Anytime. Yeah. 

[00:31:50] Jacinta: Exactly. 

[00:31:50] Andy: So anyway, there's a little insight. So, okay. So then you work. You know, you, you ended up with Oh, Sammy, Sammy Shah. Yeah. That was your, you did the breakfast. 

[00:31:59] Jacinta: [00:32:00] Yes. 

[00:32:00] Andy: That's hell. What 

[00:32:02] Jacinta: was hell. Everything about it was hell.

[00:32:04] Jacinta: To be frank, we don't talk about it as much. Yeah. Early. And it was a really difficult transition, I think for an audience to go from a particular style of host. Red Simons. Yeah. Yeah. To us. Yeah. So hell on other levels as 

[00:32:22] Jacinta: well. 

[00:32:22] Jacinta: Right. Oh, 

[00:32:23] Andy: the audience didn't like it. No. Hated it. I liked some sarcastic Red Simons.

[00:32:28] Jacinta: Yeah. Love and love [00:32:30] and great. But you know, that experience was another one of those requiring deep resilience to get through. 

[00:32:38] Andy: Because they would have, well, the audience was transitioning through Red Simons into John Fain. Yeah. But there's some like dynamic there and John Fane was he was brutal at times.

[00:32:50] Andy: That's a, that's a difficult listen at times, listening to John Fane bail people up. Yeah. So maybe, yeah, I can see you're, you're 

[00:32:57] Andy: too, you're too nice for that. 

[00:32:58] Jacinta: Yeah. Way too [00:33:00] joyful in the morning and Sammy, anyway, it was just a time, a beautiful, I, I am a massive fan of Sammy Shah. Yeah. We're great friends.

[00:33:08] Jacinta: Yeah. We always will be. Yeah. We're dedicated to each other for the rest of our lives. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Going through two years of Breakfast Radio together, you are forged in the fires and yeah, I love him. He's, you know. He's a wild man, but I love 

[00:33:25] Jacinta: him. 

[00:33:25] Andy: Yeah. That's fantastic. And then you moved to afternoons.

[00:33:27] Andy: Yeah. Yeah. So they said, here's three hours [00:33:30] on your own. 

[00:33:30] Jacinta: Far out. I know, can you imagine? Even my bosses, when I first started would go like, I got into the car and then I went and did shopping and I, you know, wrote a thesis and. Went and did all this stuff and then I get back in and you're still talking like three hours is an enormous amount of time.

[00:33:48] Andy: It really is. Like doesn't it make you tired? 

[00:33:51] Jacinta: Yes. Yes. It really does. 

[00:33:52] Andy: You don't sound tired. That's what. 

[00:33:54] Jacinta: I'm not in that moment in those three hours. I'm absolutely not. It's a very, there's a lot [00:34:00] of wonderful energy exchange, you know, it is. And it got me through the pandemic and COVID. Equally, like I, it was a, a beautiful place to be for three hours a day with Victoria, you know, talking and experiencing something very unique together.

[00:34:19] Jacinta: It was quite an honor that time in 

[00:34:22] Jacinta: making radio. 

[00:34:23] Andy: Other people were getting perspective, I think at that time, and you're the constant in the day. [00:34:30] Yeah. Which was and so even when we were working with you, right, like the impact that had on us. It was a constant for us. So even though it was, I mean, that was, that ended up being a few hours a day for five minutes.

[00:34:44] Andy: For those who don't know, who've never been involved in media production before. It was about three hours a day of work for five to eight minutes on the radio. Yeah. 

[00:34:52] Andy: Yeah.

[00:34:52] Jacinta: It's a lot of work. Yeah. I know. Thank you. I think I have said thank you, but thank you again. 

[00:34:58] Andy: Oh, I know. It was, [00:35:00] it was a great experience.

[00:35:01] Andy: And like I say, I got to be a comedy writer for a time even using special effects by the end. 

[00:35:07] Jacinta: It was so good. You did such a great job, but yeah, it's a big, it's a big deal, but also at the same time, you certainly can't. Talk about a job like that in any way, except for how lovely it is, you know, no, I can't speak of tiredness because it's such a great gig.

[00:35:23] Andy: Yeah. So, but afterwards, are you cooked? Like when you go home, you're just 

[00:35:26] Andy: like, 

[00:35:27] Jacinta: yeah, and [00:35:30] increasingly so, yeah. So I, yeah, I'm thinking about it, you know, what that means and how to. Wonder about my life. 

[00:35:38] Andy: Yeah. Yeah, because I mean, it is tough because if you're on the high during the show But but you laid it out flat for a while afterwards.

[00:35:48] Andy: Yeah. 

[00:35:49] Jacinta: Yeah, it's it's And because there's so many things in in life and you know writing and doing all sorts of stuff. It's trying to It's trying to work out [00:36:00] your energy energy. I find really fascinating. Okay, I always think why is it different to be on a holiday? And to be at home, you know, like, you know, how, how do we use energy?

[00:36:09] Jacinta: How do we think about it? What are we doing with our energy when we're at work? That's different to relaxation. So I've really tried to. Actually think about my energy in a really different way and trying to find less pressure and all those sorts of things that we take with us to work or the way we think about it.

[00:36:28] Jacinta: And to imagine more, [00:36:30] it's not that space, you know, it's 

[00:36:33] Jacinta: quite strange, but it's working. 

[00:36:35] Andy: You've taken on some Eastern philosophy and I've heard you mention meditation. 

[00:36:39] Jacinta: Oh, I'm a really, this is something I never talk about, but it is a huge, wow. It's not very exciting, but it's, it's a huge part of me, my spiritual life, you know, meditation and just listening to the old mystics and reading and really, I think illness.

[00:36:58] Jacinta: Absolutely drove me in that [00:37:00] direction to find a space to be able to handle and cope and it has become a life practice which I'm so joyful for like again perspective has shifted with the You know the assistance of insights from the very wise Humans that have gone before us. 

[00:37:19] Andy: Well, these very wise humans grew up in a time where They could sit still for extended periods.

[00:37:26] Andy: Yes. So they work these things out, you know, they say the best ideas [00:37:30] happen when you're bored. Yes. They've got time to ponder, whereas we don't have time to ponder. 

[00:37:35] Jacinta: When I was sick, I did. That was the best thing. I realized I was at a really deep and beautiful spiritual place when I was sick and then I went back into the business of the world and I was like, Oh, wow, how quickly you can.

[00:37:48] Jacinta: Lose connection and all the things that you have when your head is outside, you know and running around So I'm just trying to bring it back all the time. 

[00:37:56] Andy: Yeah, that's not that's actually similar to the pandemic [00:38:00] Yeah, it will slow down. What's what is what normal are we rushing back to 

[00:38:04] Jacinta: that's right and perspective has shifted As a result you said we were going through it and I think Also, post this time, when we've come back into the world the way we had it, we've now reflected and thought, do we actually want it like this, individually and broadly as a society?

[00:38:21] Jacinta: I think it's been a slower transition than perhaps we might have imagined it was going to be. But I think it is 

[00:38:27] Jacinta: happening. 

[00:38:29] Andy: Yeah. [00:38:30] So. We've covered that part of it and I want to push onto this one just because I think this one's important as well. So this is your second book and I'm holding it up here for those who are listening.

[00:38:40] Andy: It's called Question of Age. This is your current... Yeah. The book that you're promoting currently, Women Aging and the Forever Self. You must be good friends with Claire Bowditch because she's, she's, she's, she's given you a grab for both of these books. But I want to read out the one she wrote for your question of age book, which she [00:39:00] said, it's hard to explain the relief one feels when an author tells the truth like this.

[00:39:04] Andy: This is a work of love. And I, when I read that after reading the book and I said. To myself and I've told you twice now I 100% agree with that because this book here and I'll let you explain what it is, but this book here tackles some very, very different stuff. And again, leads me to think. The outside of radio, just in a Parsons, she's got a lot to say about some other things.

[00:39:28] Andy: She really does. So what's this book about? [00:39:30] Question of age. 

[00:39:30] Jacinta: I, I began writing this book just after writing a funny article really that a publisher found about realizing that I was getting older. You know, the stories around me being in the, the bar and meeting this young woman and getting along really well.

[00:39:45] Jacinta: And then she says to me, Oh gosh, I wish you were my mom. And then realizing that I was not viewed in the same way I was viewing myself, that she saw me as a mother, which I technically could have been to this woman. But and [00:40:00] so I sat down, we had this great conversation about writing this book and I sat down and I actually wanted to look at aging and really try and account for what a lot of especially this is a gendered book, this is about an experience of women aging.

[00:40:15] Jacinta: A lot of women describe as that kind of rage. that they feel as they get older. What is that about? I really wanted to look into that. So it took me right back and, you know, how we're made in this world as women and how we're constructed to [00:40:30] see ourselves as aging people. Lots of questions in this book rather than knowledge.

[00:40:35] Jacinta: It's more about just wondering how I enter. space, what I'm going to be thinking about myself and undoing some of the, the huge ways that we are conditioned to think of ourselves as women. Yeah. 

[00:40:50] Andy: But not just how you think of yourselves as women, but how we, and I say, we as men are thinking of you as women as well.

[00:40:59] Jacinta: Huge. [00:41:00] 

[00:41:00] Andy: So I found this book confronting and I have said this to, I reading through, because this isn't, when you say age, the first thing I think of when I pick it up and I'm thinking of aging, like middle age onwards, you know, it's not just about that. You work right through from little girls right through to older women.

[00:41:23] Andy: And you talk about the different stages and what you experienced from your perspective. And [00:41:30] these are things that, because I'd never heard it from that perspective. And I thought some of these things are really nasty. And I am a hundred percent complicit in contributing to these. Things. These experiences.

[00:41:43] Jacinta: Yeah. 

[00:41:43] Andy: The two that really stood out for me, the ones that really were the most confronting, I think, was the, this the teenage girl. So moving from a, like a prepubescent girl into beauty and how you start to get viewed [00:42:00] when you start getting noticed as a young woman and how you get treated. And there's this, and I don't know how to word it, but maybe you can word it better.

[00:42:08] Andy: The Virgin Prize, almost. It's that sort of, you know, there's some sort of prize and some sort of I don't know, the, the opinions and how we treat these young women. Yeah. And I think about the language we used to use. Now, admittedly, I was a lot younger and I was almost the same age as these girls. So that, I don't know if that makes it better or worse.

[00:42:29] Andy: [00:42:30] Statements such as, and this is one I always remember. If there's grass on the pitch, I mean, that's a, I mean, I mean, if you're an older person saying that, that's obviously no, no good. That's statements like that. I mean, we've said stuff like that all the time, you know, and so you're, you're basically observing the, yeah, the prized.

[00:42:50] Andy: Child and saying well, there's there's a timeline here Yeah and when that timeline is When we reach a certain point then [00:43:00] it's and it's about them being property of 

[00:43:03] Andy: everyone else. 

[00:43:03] Jacinta: That's right I love that you have read this and have been unafraid to See where you sit in it because I sit in it too. I mean it's not It's not just men, it's a system, you know, it's the way that we're brought up to think about ourselves and our community and people within it.

[00:43:23] Jacinta: And I think it's so healthy to not be afraid to see past or even [00:43:30] to see where you are now and to reflect and to take ownership and to go, okay, that's not, I'm not, you know, I carry, I carried on with stuff that I was taught. Without having the opportunity to reflect, wow, you know, what was that impact? I think that's so powerful and it's such music to my ears when someone like yourself has had that sort of reflection.

[00:43:52] Jacinta: I got a beautiful email from a man the other day who said, I've started listening to on the radio and so I picked up your book, you know, I'm 75, nearly [00:44:00] 80. And wow, thank you. And he had read it and had a similar reflection, you know, and I just, it's such a wonderful thing that we are unafraid. We, you know, in this world we're in right now, council culture and so frightened of getting it wrong, we can really lose an opportunity for the humility that it requires to actually go, Oh, well, I.

[00:44:22] Jacinta: I'm in transition myself, and that stuff that I thought, which I thought about women too. I thought, because that's how we were taught to [00:44:30] think about women, that I can reflect now and undo it for myself, and then when we talk about it, we hopefully undo it further for future women and, you know, for the future of 

[00:44:42] Jacinta: women.

[00:44:42] Andy: Yeah. And it was so interesting how you talked about, It, it was almost like I won't say juxtaposition, but like at one point you were kind of like, I like the attention slash catcalling slash like the, the sort of the negative stuff. I, I like it and [00:45:00] hate it at the same time because it made me have feel like I had worth delusional sort of worth, but the feeling of worth, but also that hated it.

[00:45:11] Jacinta: This is the bind because in our society right now you are actually. More valuable if you are seen through a positive sexual lens. Yeah. You are. You get paid more. It's, it's shown in statistics depending on how old you are and how good you [00:45:30] look, you get 20% more income. Yeah. We are. We are giving value.

[00:45:35] Jacinta: It's not just in our heads. We give value to the things that we say we don't actually value. We value looks, we value thinness, we value youth, we value all these things. And then we tell women, well, why are you worried about that? Get over it. So I just really wanted to be truthful about that duality because A joke often amongst women is, oh, I don't get tooted anymore.

[00:45:59] Jacinta: I got tooted [00:46:00] today though, you know, I'm still seen as something. But obviously when you unwrap it all, it just comes back to that being awarded worth rather than having this innate sense of it, which gets taken away from us when we're so heavily viewed and critiqued from the outside. And women experience that very much, men do too.

[00:46:21] Jacinta: And women have a very particular experience 

[00:46:23] Jacinta: of it. 

[00:46:24] Andy: Yeah. And then you said, and the other part, I think that came, you know, resent [00:46:30] I, I, what's the word I'm looking for here? The other thing that stuck with me was when you talked about the transition then out of that period where you would walk around with girlfriends and get catcalled, the next bit where all of a sudden you didn't.

[00:46:46] Andy: Yeah. And it was all of a sudden a bit of a, Oh, now I'm invisible. Yeah. And I've crossed the line and I'm not. 

[00:46:54] Jacinta: Not worth anything anymore. Yeah, it's a really, because it becomes so [00:47:00] normalized for such a period of your life, potentially, depending on all the intersections of your self in all the ways that we go around in the world, you know, our culture, our social status, our disability, all the things.

[00:47:12] Jacinta: But there is a really, a definite period in youth where it becomes so, what happens, you just expect that's who you are, and then all of a sudden that's not who you are anymore, and there's a reckoning with that, but obviously this is about an understanding about the world outside [00:47:30] us, and how important it is that we fight for the world inside us.

[00:47:34] Jacinta: That we have that perspective thing we're talking about, that we're enabled to have a, an opportunity to really live inside as much as we can, rather than taking the cues from the outside world as to who we are. 

[00:47:49] Andy: Yeah. 

[00:47:50] Andy: And you talk to the mothers as well, which I found really intriguing because a woman, two women of the same age, one's a mother.

[00:47:59] Andy: The [00:48:00] mother has an intrinsic value because she, because she's now doing a job. I mean, I feel like the, the element of looks becomes less important because your job is mother and that's all accepted. Two identical women side by side, one has kids. She's, she has a role and a job, whereas the other one you're saying, she's not doing what she was made to do.

[00:48:22] Andy: She's, why isn't, why isn't this woman being the mother? 

[00:48:26] Jacinta: That's right. I think a lot of women have reflected upon how much [00:48:30] pressure there is, an expectation that that's the role that we fulfill as women, is to ultimately become mothers. We're handed baby dolls as children. It's so built into us. That that is our role and our purpose that often women have to fight for the right for not wanting that.

[00:48:52] Jacinta: They have to explain themselves, you know, what you don't really, you will want children. Of course you will. You [00:49:00] know much more again, we're shifting. We're understanding that that's absolutely not. It's not the destiny for a female body necessarily. 

[00:49:08] Andy: That must be, that frame of, or that way of thinking must be worth an absolute fortune to like the IVF industry, wouldn't it be?

[00:49:16] Andy: Like they, that message of you should be a mother and people who may have in different times without the technology gone, it's not for me, I'm sad. That's the way it is. They are [00:49:30] now sort of being driven towards, well. Here you go. 

[00:49:34] Jacinta: Yeah, it's complex, isn't it? Because of course it's also Hopefully some, you know, everyone has an opportunity and a capacity with choice It's about choice, isn't it?

[00:49:46] Jacinta: How we choose who we are and how we choose who we are Unencumbered by the pressure from the world around us that that the choice is really innate I think is a difficulty we still [00:50:00] face 

[00:50:01] Andy: Yeah, and did you write this? This is another question I had. Is this the book you wrote in a caravan? 

[00:50:06] Jacinta: Yes, some of it. I take myself away and write.

[00:50:11] Jacinta: Yeah. 

[00:50:11] Andy: At one point they said on the radio, Jacinta Parsons is away at the moment in a caravan. 

[00:50:15] Jacinta: I loved it. Yeah, so nice to go away and sit in a caravan and write. Yeah. Not all of it. We didn't know what happened 

[00:50:22] Jacinta: in the caravan. 

[00:50:23] Andy: Were you successful? In actually writing in the caravan, or did you? 

[00:50:26] Jacinta: Yes. Yeah. I'd sit by the fire.

[00:50:29] Jacinta: I'd [00:50:30] write. I'd think. Go for a walk. Write in the caravan. 

[00:50:32] Andy: You put the fire outside the caravan? 

[00:50:34] Jacinta: Yes, definitely. I was really good at camping. I worked that out. Okay. 

[00:50:37] Andy: Were you on your own? 

[00:50:38] Jacinta: Yeah. That's what was good about it. How exciting. Okay. Whoo. Love it. Love a bit of that. 

[00:50:46] Andy: I'm for some reason I'm having flashbacks of the, one of the later episodes of Peaky Blinders when he's...

[00:50:52] Andy: I'm alone in a gypsy caravan and if you haven't seen it, okay, that's not 

[00:50:57] Andy: good. I mean, it sounds, well, it 

[00:50:58] Andy: was yeah, [00:51:00] but anyway, I'm glad you got through. 

[00:51:02] Jacinta: I enjoyed it very much. 

[00:51:04] Andy: Look, it's an incredible book and I seriously, as I mean, I feel like this is pitched at women, but I 100% suggest that if you're a man who likes to sit down and read a book, you should read it.

[00:51:15] Jacinta: I love that you say that. 

[00:51:17] Andy: You should read it. Because it will make you, well, it definitely made me question the way I have treated women in the past. Yeah. And how we should change to change [00:51:30] that. Yeah. In the future. That's right. Yeah. I mean, these are two pretty big topics. Have you got anything left?

[00:51:38] Andy: Yeah. What's coming? 

[00:51:41] Jacinta: Well, there's, I, I'm, I've started writing a fiction. Really? Yeah. Okay. I'm excited. It's a beautiful experience. I love writing. Yeah. Writing is possibly my number one. 

[00:51:53] Andy: That's your favorite thing. 

[00:51:53] Jacinta: I think so. Yeah. Because it's so nice. You just get to go inside. Yep. And really [00:52:00] enter that space.

[00:52:01] Jacinta: Beautiful. Yeah. So yeah, there is more. There is more in me. Okay. 

[00:52:07] Andy: Yeah. Any more reality? 

[00:52:08] Jacinta: Possibly. Really? Yeah. Okay. I don't know. It's interesting. I don't, again, I have nothing particular amazing about me to write about, but I find the human condition. 

[00:52:20] Andy: Except all of this. 

[00:52:20] Jacinta: Yeah, I know. But anyway, you know what I mean?

[00:52:23] Jacinta: It's not that I'm, I'm particularly. 

[00:52:24] Andy: 600 odd pages over here. 

[00:52:27] Jacinta: Yeah, but I mean I just [00:52:30] enjoy reflecting on being a human. I like humans a lot. That's why I like doing radio. It's like, you know, I really do. When people say, I love that they love animals, I'm like, I really like humans. I know that's, yep. Not something you ever talk about, but I'm so into the human condition.

[00:52:47] Jacinta: Hmm. Yeah. 

[00:52:48] Andy: Oh, that's lovely. Yeah. I think I am too. 

[00:52:50] Jacinta: Yeah, I think you are. I, I enjoy hearing stories and talking. 

[00:52:53] Jacinta: That's it. Yeah, 

[00:52:54] Jacinta: because there's something, I mean, it sounds ridiculous, but of course we like humans. But yeah. [00:53:00] I find it fascinating.

[00:53:01] Andy: I like this format because on radio you, everyone's got two, three, I mean, Ruben blew it out at eight minutes at times which I'm so surprised that I can.

[00:53:11] Andy: And of course that made the job longer at the other end. 

[00:53:14] Jacinta: Sorry. I just kept him talking. 

[00:53:16] Andy: Well, in the edits. Yeah. Edits were getting longer, but it's very fast paced. It's in and you don't go deep. 

[00:53:24] Jacinta: No. I mean, you, you, it's a really interesting thing to do that with somebody and you know it. You sit in [00:53:30] a space and you have this beautiful moment that you wouldn't get in other spaces.

[00:53:33] Jacinta: If you go and meet someone for a coffee or something. Yeah. This is like straight in. Yes. How can we get as quickly to where you are and what you're doing and what you want. Sometimes it's just ridiculous. But there are beautiful moments that stay with me forever even if it's a 10 15 minute chat Yeah, there's been an honesty or there's been a real interest in inquiry together.

[00:53:54] Jacinta: Yeah, beautiful 

[00:53:55] Andy: You've done some great stuff and with your former producer Jo. There were some really nice [00:54:00] things. Yeah. Yeah, you've had some good chats beautiful Yeah, yeah, and I guess middle of the day you've got The time a bit more too, haven't you? 

[00:54:07] Jacinta: Of all the radio shows, the afternoon's the best one because of that reason.

[00:54:11] Jacinta: Yeah. There's more time. 

[00:54:11] Andy: Everyone else has to be a bit more hard hitting. Yeah. Because you've got shows that are half an hour, like bang, bang, bang, before and after, or not after, before. An hour. Yeah. Yeah. So, and they're just hard. They're quick. Yeah,

[00:54:23] Andy: in and 

[00:54:24] Jacinta: out, whereas we can sit around a bit more, give Ruben eight minutes.

[00:54:27] Jacinta: Yeah, that sounds like a really short amount of time, but [00:54:30] it's such a long time. It is a long time on radio. It's a long time. It's amazing what you can do. 

[00:54:33] Andy: For a nine year old. 

[00:54:35] Jacinta: Yeah, he's like woof. He's very tired. He's like man. 

[00:54:38] Jacinta: He was 

[00:54:39] Andy: so tired. I know. He was so tired. And can I tell you about one joke that he never used?

[00:54:44] Jacinta: Yes. 

[00:54:44] Andy: And I wish I tried to get him to do it, but I tried to get him to open with, it's, it's always a good day when I don't have to wait for the premier to finish. Because the day I had to finish was the day that then we went on air and he's like, P. [00:55:00] S. By the way, your birthday's cancelled. 

[00:55:02] Jacinta: By the way, you're not going on camp.

[00:55:04] Jacinta: By the way, those vegetables you liked, you probably can't get them anymore in the shops. No, you're terrible, wasn't it? 

[00:55:10] Andy: And do you know what, like he was, he was an absolute professional. He did his bit. And we went off. I know. And then he fell on the couch and he was so upset because 

[00:55:20] Andy: it was my birthday. 

[00:55:22] Jacinta: I know. What a special human. Yeah. Really. So good. 

[00:55:26] Andy: But you made up for it. You definitely made up for it. I hope so. Yeah. I hope so. Even [00:55:30] if it was just for the donuts. 

[00:55:31] Jacinta: Yeah. Oh, that's right. He got some donuts, didn't he? 

[00:55:33] Jacinta: That's right. 

[00:55:34] Andy: Yeah, you were very nice. Yeah. Well, look. Jacinta Parsons. Thank you so much for coming onto the Good People Podcast.

[00:55:42] Andy: I've really enjoyed being able to take some time. 

[00:55:44] Jacinta: Ah, I loved it. 

[00:55:45] Andy: And having, talking about your books again, Unseen, right? Great book about chronic chronic illness. And then of course, Question of Age which is the current one you're promoting. And of course, all of the great books that are coming 

[00:55:59] Andy: soon.

[00:55:59] Jacinta: Oh, [00:56:00] yeah. Watch this space. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll come back 

[00:56:02] Jacinta: for my next one. 

[00:56:03] Andy: All very good reads. And I've really appreciated having you on the show and having a chat. And then, you know, maybe one day we can have you back, you know, next time you're doing something new. Yeah. We can hear all about it. 

[00:56:14] Jacinta: Thank you.

[00:56:15] Jacinta: What a joy. Thanks for having me on the podcast. 

[00:56:18] Jacinta: This has been 

[00:56:19] Andy: the Good People Podcast brought to you by In Other Good News. My name is Andy. Jacinta Parsons, 

[00:56:24] Andy: thank you so much

[00:56:25] Jacinta: thank you[00:56:30]